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Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.

Offline 230gr

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Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« on: December 13, 2017, 12:15:19 PM »
Cautions & observation of civilians caught in a civil conflict. 

The war in Ukraine is a tragic event but it’s one we can all learn from. Nothing provides as much valuable information as real world situations where ordinary people are forced to deal with extraordinary events. At the end of the day, the war in Ukraine gives us plenty of examples of what works and what doesn’t, and while personal experience is important, the wise person learns from other people’s mistakes so as not to repeat them himself.
What can we learn from these civilians living in war zones?
Maybe the most obvious lesson to be learned is there’s simply no surviving against an occupation force when facing them as an individual or small group.
Houses, towns and even entire cities can eventually get surrounded and overpowered. A single house or compound represents a laughable resistance to organized armed forces, let alone ones with artillery and air support at their disposal. Once shooting at your position is no longer fun, they’ll just blow you up. It’s as simple as that.
Artillery and infantry beat survivalist hero fantasies. Every. Single. Time.
In various parts of eastern Ukraine, people are suffering the lack of water, electricity and food shortages. The lesson is, prepare to always cover the basics, food, water, shelter and medicines.
You need to store food, food requiring no refrigeration and little or no cooking. You need water, not just a water filter (which you should have as well) but actual jugs of water.
For true emergencies and survival situations, just like you can’t have too much food you can’t have too much water. Have a well, have a river, if nothing else keep an eye out for large barrels on sale and keep some full of water. Even the jugs for carrying water become valuable.
Have a good supply of medicines: ibuprofen, vomit and diarrhea medicine, liquid ibuprofen for children, bandages, diapers, formula and antibiotics. Antibiotics are the difference between life and death when you need them.
Have lanterns, flashlights and lots of batteries. Get an emergency crank radio. Get a solar charger for your phone and batteries. Have alternative means of cooking and heating. A wood burning stove may do the trick, but make sure you always keep extra wood stored for emergencies.
Maybe you’re lucky enough to still have power, if so an electric burner can be put to good use then, saving other fuels for when power goes out. Have extra fuel in storage for your vehicle, enough to make it to your potential bug out location in case you need to leave in a hurry. Have a tent and sleeping bags. These can be used not only for sleeping in tents, but also if you happen to find yourself in a refugee camp during winter or in an unfurnished flat after evacuation or if you’re staying with friends or family.
In a shelled city, underground is the only safe place to be, to some extent at least. An actual bunker would be ideal, but people try finding shelter anywhere underground. In buildings, windows and doors are covered with sandbags and people sleep in the interior room away from exterior walls and windows. Windows never survive shelling. The broken glass makes it impossible to stay warm in winter. Plastic sheeting can sometimes be used to close openings and still allow light in, but this is far from an ideal solution and he loss of heat is substantial.
Another hard lesson is don’t get involved. From a survival perspective, the best way to go about conflicts which can develop into violent clashes is to not get involved in the first place. Avoid going to protests and marches.
This is especially true in cases such as the one of Ukraine, where people are seen on one side or the other during protests and clashes, often filmed.
Something as simple as a rival remembering your face from the rallies can land you in jail or worse. In this kind of situation, it’s even neighbors, former friends and coworkers that may remember your political affiliation. They may end up mentioning your name to the new authorities and they will come after you.
Jonathan Chambers
Patriot Vigilante
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Offline Clay

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 06:38:06 AM »
Does this argument defeat the "behind every blade of grass" theory?
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Offline TWP

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 08:02:33 AM »
Clay, for future readers, could you explain the "behind every blade of grass" theory?
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Offline Clay

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 10:03:45 AM »
It is an often MIS-QUOTED line used by people to declare that an army would never invade on our shores.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto

Why I ask, is that I have never believed that this is true. One day, it will happen. Might not be tomorrow, but....
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Offline TWP

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 10:06:07 AM »
Or it might be happening now...  Cheery thought for the day...  Back to the bunker.
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Offline owldancer

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 11:22:24 AM »
230gr,

How would you compare the people of the Ukraine to those in the US.

Would we be more of a underground/guerrilla force to deal with an invading army or our own government?

Would people in the US stand aside and let it happen?

If each person with a gun (how many have guns in the US) took out only one soldier how would that effect that armed forces?

Drones/tanks/artillery/modern military weapons would make a difference but would it be able to defeat a guerrilla force?

To just survive is one option, but is it the only thing a person will do?

I know, I have to many questions!
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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 01:06:28 PM »
Does this argument defeat the "behind every blade of grass" theory?

In some ways yes and some ways no.  Look at the Warsaw ghetto for both ways.

Ultimately the ghetto perished.  Ultimately the occupiers were defeated.  Lots of inhabitants perished, some didn't.

All I know is - It tain't gunna be much fun if'n it happens here.
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WolfBrother

Most folks are happy being a part of the Great Shepherds Flock.
Some folks choose to be wolves and prey on the flock.
Some folks choose to defend the flock and confront the wolf.

I am a SheepDog.

Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 03:16:44 PM »
Even if incorrectly attributed, or even misquoted, but fairly accurate at the time, the statement and even the sentiment does not apply now. For a couple of reasons. One, the US is not as cohesive as it was at that time. Two, despite there being many, many more guns, and people in the US than then, the resolve to fight is in even few than it was then. And three, while it seemed to have been heeded, for the most part, and the US did not suffer a major invasion (The Japanese did occupy a couple of the islands in Alaska, the west coast of California was shelled, and balloon carried bombs were dropped in a few places in the northern tier of states), there are people in the world now that do not have what it takes to understand the quote and what it means. And the outcome if ignored. So, yes, even with the probability of millions of people with rifles behind millions of blades of grass, we very well may be facing an invasion in the coming years.

(No, I do not think it would come even close to being successful, but that does not mean the attempt will not be made.)

Just my opinion.
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Jerry D Young

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and always remember TANSTAAFL

(TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert A. Heinlein)

Offline 230gr

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Re: Ukraine War: what we can learn from it.
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 04:37:17 PM »
I can’t claim to any kind of expert on the Ukraine. You must admire their ability to endure and tenacity. They have been betrayed and run over by powers that they could not begin to match for generations. They have suffered genocidal starvation by Stalin and lived under a most oppressive government.  Americans cannot even image what they have lived with.   

If this was the generation of the 1940s, with their spirit and general familiarity with firearms, and with the support of the US Military (such as it was at the beginning of the war), I think that they would have fiercely resisted an invader especially the Japanese. At least as an underground/guerrilla force. With our current generation of the age needed for this type of fighting, with its “guns are evil and what can the government do for me” attitude, I am not so sure. They might stand aside and let it happen.

With 32% of the 136 million American Households owning guns, including old ladies with .25 cal purse guns, about 43 million (or just the cost of doing business if it is the Chinese) solders could be shot (and hopefully killed) before getting a bayonet through their guts. Of course only a small fraction American Households owning guns could or would use them.

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Drones/tanks/artillery/modern military weapons would make a difference but would it be able to defeat a guerrilla force?

It has not made ISIS give up and they have paid a terrible price. Also they are martyr seeking fanatics and Americans are not.  To just survive is more than one option, if your whole family is at risk as an object of retaliation or if you would make a difference in them starving or not. But is fighting is not the only thing a person will do; pouring sand in the gears is more than an expression.

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Ultimately the ghetto perished.  Ultimately the occupiers were defeated. 

That was a bit different, there was no way out and no, or very little, hopes of survival in this battle of eradication. It was a “take as many down with you” situation from the start.   
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