[Edited by Ken to remove all formatting characters]
My thoughts on communications
Messengers
Couriers
Signal flags
Signal mirror
Heliograph
Horns/trumpets
Drums
Yodeling
Whistles
Though some form of power or lighting source is required, for nighttime comms a signal light can be used, as can lasers, if used carefully.
Other simple short-range systems, that require a wire connection:
Telegraph
Sound powered phones
Simple powered telephone system
The following is based on quality radios, and excellent antennas for maximum RELIABE communication under good conditions:
Very Short range (1/4 mile hand held to hand held) - FRS - no license
Short range (1 mile hand held to hand held, longer ranges with repeaters) – GMRS – license
Longer short range (2 miles hand held to hand held) – MURS – no license
Longer short range (2 miles hand held to hand held, longer ranges with repeaters – 2 – meter Amateur – license
Longer short range (2 miles hand held to hand held) – CB – no license
Medium range (10 miles mobile to mobile) – CB – no license
Medium range (10 miles mobile to mobile) – 6-meter/10-meter Amateur – license
Longer medium range (25 miles base to base) – CB – no license
Longer medium range (25 miles base to base) 6-meter/10-meter Amateur – license
Long range (25+ miles mobile-to-mobile/base-to-mobile/base-to-base) – HF Amateur – license
Yes, everything over 25 miles, without using repeaters, is long range. Handheld to handheld, without repeaters, is limited to about 5 miles under ideal conditions.
When it comes to radio communications there are several options for short range, medium range, and a couple for long range communications. Some are relatively inexpensive, others quite expensive.
For short range radios:
FRS – UHF, no license, fixed antennas, handheld only, ¼ mile to 1 mile, no repeaters
GMRS – UHF, license required, ¼ mile to 2 miles, more with a repeater
MURS – VHF, no license, ½ mile to 3 miles, handhelds and bases, better antennas, no repeaters
Amateur UHF – 70 cm, License required for each operator, ½ mile to 5 miles, more with repeaters
Public service UHF – For official government jurisdiction use, ½ mile to 5 miles, more with repeaters
Business Band UHF/VHF – commercial radios in these frequencies require a system license and are restricted to business activities only. Fairly expensive. ¼ mile to 5 miles, more with repeaters
For medium range radios:
CB AM/SSB – HF, no license, limit to 4 watt input on AM (equivalent to 12 watts on SSB), 1 mile to 15 miles
Amateur VHF – 6 meter, 2 meter, each operator requires a license, high power options available, 1 mile to 15 miles, more with repeaters
Business Band Low VHF – Same as UHF/VHF business band except a bit more expensive and much longer range, more with repeaters
For long range radios:
Amateur HF – License required for each operator, 1 mile to worldwide, moderate expense
Business Band HF – Same ranges as Amateur HF. System license required (quite expensive), equipment is more expensive than Amateur but usually heavy duty. Very expensive.
Long range HF radio communications are dependent on the type, quality, gain, and height of the antennas on each end; the amount of power used; and most importantly, atmospheric conditions at any given time. However, with the wide spectrum of HF for Amateur Radio, there is usually a band open for where you want to talk to at the time, if both ends can calculate propagation and are using a coordinated communications schedule. Plus, Amateur Radio operators are usually pretty good about relaying messages to points where a sender cannot get to, but they can.
There are VHF and HF options in the Aircraft Band and Marine Band, but using these radios prior to the PAW will result in serious penalties, unless used for their intended purposes.
For the most inexpensive and practical use radios I would go with MURS for short range (about $100 per handheld radio up to $200); CB AM/SSB for medium range mobile-to-mobile/mobile-to-base/base-to-base; (about $100 to $200 plus $40 to $200 for antennas)(with 6 meter Amateur an option), and Amateur HF for long range manpack, mobile, and base (about $1,000 to $2,500 plus $100 to $2,500 for antennas).
Amateur radio is the best way to communicate for any distance, by far. And it is a decent information source because of it. But for information acquisition, there are some other possible needs that Amateur radio does not easily cover.
I would suggest you set up a monitoring suite while working on getting your Amateur Radio license (Go ahead and go for both Technician and General. If you can pass the Tech, with only a little more study, you can pass the General at the same time. Use the practice tests that are on-line.).
First: A dedicated NOAA weather radio with SAME alert, with a crank-up back-up version.
Second: A good AM/FM portable multi-power radio, preferably with crank up power option.
Third: A scanner capable of receiving trunked communications. Even if the locals are not using a trunked system, they may eventually, and there are probably agencies that might be in the area, or going through, that do.
Fourth: A decent quality dedicated shortwave receiver. Get a good one, that has SSB capability. If your back-up weather radio has shortwave, that is good, if not get a crank up, or at least a multi-powered back up shortwave radio, too.
Fifth: A good general coverage receiver. A just HF version would be okay, but better to go with an all-band/all-mode version. Mobile or handheld either one.
For antennas, you can string a wire around the apartment for the Shortwave and the general coverage receiver. Add a quality active antenna that can be used with either one and you can improve reception some of the time. One of the best options for the scanner is a discone antenna. They look strange, which might even help. Could even attach it to something artistic on the patio/deck and call it an art piece.
Get a couple of FRS/GMRS radios for short range comms (and I mean short range. No more than a mile, if that) with your family/friends. Get MURS radios if you want more range than FRS/GMRS, but still limited to around two miles most of the time.
Then, as you learn more about Amateur radio you will be able to make some informed decisions about the right equipment for your current and future situations.
Just my opinion.
Basic Comms
There are several legal choices available to the civilian to handle two-way communications needs.
FRS: handheld radios only, fixed antenna, 0.5-watt fixed power, no repeaters, no license required (UHF band)
GMRS: handheld, mobile, and base radios, variable power okay, repeaters okay, external antennas okay, license for the family is required (UHF band)
MURS: handheld, mobile, and base radios, up to 2 watts, no repeaters, external antennas okay, no license required (VHF Band)
CB AM: handheld, mobile, and base radios, up to 4 watts, no repeaters, external antennas okay, no license required (Upper end of HF band, near the bottom of Low VHF band)
CB AM/SSB: mobile and base radios, up to 4 watts AM/12watts SSB, no repeaters, external antennas okay, no license required (Upper end of HF band, near the bottom of Low VHF band)
Amateur Radios: handheld, mobile, base radios, power depends on band, up to 1,500 watts in some HF bands, repeaters on some bands okay, external antennas okay, license for each operator required (HF, Low VHF, VHF, UHF plus some others that do not really apply to general communications needs) (Personal only, no business)
Land Mobile Business Band: handheld, mobile, base radios, power depends on band and operating location, must always use minimum power required, repeaters on some bands okay, external antennas okay, Frequency selection fees & license fees are fairly expensive. (There are limited frequencies in HF, Low VHF, VHF, UHF bands.) (Business only, no personal)
FRS/GMRS/MURS/CB are all set up with channel numbers on specific bands.
Amateur radios, for the most part, can tune various frequencies within the bands, with some standardization of frequency use on VHF and UHF bands for repeater and various other uses. Equipment is from cheap to very expensive.
Land Mobile Business band users, for the most part, are assigned specific frequencies within specific narrow band limits, but there are no channel numbers. Equipment is from somewhat expensive to very expensive.
Handheld to Handheld ranges:
Short Range (Less than 1 mile): FRS, GMRS (in and around urban areas, UHF Land mobile business band, UHF Amateur band)
Medium Range (Up to 5 miles): GMRS, MURS, CB AM, (there are no legal handheld CB AM/SSB radios I know of), UHF Land mobile Business Band, UHF Amateur
Medium Range (Up to 10 miles) Low VHF Land Mobile business band, high power VHF Land Mobile Business band, high power VHF Amateur
Longer Range (Up to 25 miles) As Medium range, but using repeater systems. Using linked repeater systems can extend the range, mostly just Amateur, well above the 25 miles.
Long Range (Over 25 miles): There are no 25 mile or 50 mile or 100 mile hand held to hand held options of which I am aware other than using linked repeaters. The closest one can come are man-pack HF radios for Amateur or Land Mobile Business band use, which are compact (relatively speaking), medium power, fairly large batteries, and long, awkward antennas. I simply do not consider these handhelds. The operation parameters are the same as regular Amateur and Land Mobile Business band HF set-ups, with limited antennas, unless stationary and larger antennas are deployed. Use on the move is somewhat limited.
For vehicle mobile to mobile ranges:
Short range (Less than 10 miles): FRS, GMRS, MURS, CB-AM, VHF/UHF Land mobile Business Band, Amateur VHF/UHF (2 meter & 70 centimeter)
Medium range (up to 20 miles in really good circumstances: CB-SSB, GMRS with repeater use, VHF Land Mobile Business Band, Amateur VHF
Longer range (Up to 50 miles in really good circumstances): Low VHF Business band, VHF Business Band with repeater use, Amateur VHF with repeater use
Long range (Anything over about 50 miles): HF Land Mobile Business Band, HF Amateur
The ranges are extended very slightly from handheld range when talking to mobiles or base stations.
The ranges are extended somewhat from mobile range when talking to base stations.
All options can get longer ranges, except FRS, MURS, CB, and some Business band sections, with additional power amplification over the basic radios, very good omnidirectional antennas (all around coverage), and directional antennas.
Terrain plays a huge part in effective distances. Mountainous terrain (unless you are talking mountain top to mountain top) reduces the range of just about all frequency bands, with the lower HF frequencies the least. Heavily wooded and urban terrain reduce range. Heavy usage on a given band reduces range.
The cheapest options simply do not have much range. The medium priced options can have a bit more range, if high quality equipment is used. The higher priced options will get you just about anywhere you want, though not necessarily on any given day at any given time, though by learning propagation effects, and the ability to use different frequencies as needed, one can often carry on scheduled comms if the right band and time is matched to the propagation at the time. Propagation is rather complex, and one needs to be fairly radio literate to start trying to make reliable communications based on it.
It basically boils down to having limited range communications, up to about 5 miles handheld to handheld, and 25 miles mobile to mobile reliably, for a decent price, and going Amateur for distances over that. Getting Land Mobile Business band systems are complicated and expensive, though they can do essentially the same thing the Amateurs can do. One is personal comms, and the other business comms.
Basically it boils down to information acquisition first, communications with your family/group second, and then longer range two-way communications.
It will be imperative to know what is going on around you if something happens. The NOAA weather alert radio is the primary way the federal, state, and local governments will issue information in a crisis. Not to mention it will keep you informed about weather problems.
A scanner lets you keep up on local public service agencies (police, fire, ambulance, medical, maintenance department) as well as some VHF/UHF business band, NGOs, amateur radio, and other services. While these will not be 'official' information, they can help a person decide what is really going on, and any likely trouble spots and/or help that might be available.
A shortwave provides the same, on a worldwide scale, as the scanner does locally. What is happening around the world can affect us here, and the information is often not controlled by our government or the MSM, giving more and more accurate information than might be available. It can also be used to listen to HF Amateur, marine, aircraft, and business band frequencies, which are simply additional sources of information.
The FRS/GMRS/MURS/CB/Amateur radios allow one to actually communicate, as well as just monitor those bands for useful information. Transmitting will need to be at the lowest level that will get the job done, and minimally, as well. Radio signals can be triangulated fairly quickly and a location determined close enough for someone to find the antenna location.
This is my opinion of the very basics of civilian radio communications options.
Jerry D Young
Some of my responses to questions or statements made on various forums by various people, and my responses to them:
Originally Posted by ###### View Post
When it goes down, radio will be the last line of comm. Do not get the digital am/fm survival radios for basic info - make sure it is analogue so you can tune in between frq. You can legally own a HAM radio and listen in without an FCC license. But for the sake of it, take the time and effort to get AT LEAST your tech license and participate in your local area.
I looked and didn't see a radio discussion group for this diatribe.
Cell phones and digital land lines will fail. But even a simple CB radio [11m]- and I can't believe I'm saying this, might just be a life saver.
Take some time and look into it - how to tune your antenna, set everything up and test it. Understand your bands and the frq within them. At the very least, find out your local 2 meter and 70cm repeaters' offsets and tones.
A really great starter is a simple BaoFeng UV5R for about $30 on amazon.
You can hit local repeaters and with an antenna upgrade for a few more bucks will get you a better connection.
Radio WILL BE the only form of communication when it goes down.
Learn how to use them even if you aren't licensed.
My response:
The subject has been covered several times on the board, over the years.
While there is some truth in the statements, I pretty much disagree across the board, other than that Amateur Radio will be the best available form of communications in a grid down situation for the initial days. It is certainly not the only form that will work in a grid down situation, and not necessarily the best at times.
The Baofeng radios are fine for light duty use. However, grid down, after a short time period, the repeater systems will go down and you are then limited to a couple miles to ten miles, (line of sight) of range with 2-meter and 70-cm. You need HF rigs for long distance comms. And they require larger antennas. And they all need power. Solar power systems will work long term, if sophisticated enough and sized properly. If the batteries for the solar power system are not sufficient, then you will be out of power before you are finished communicating.
Not to mention, using radios when there are outfits with the equipment to RDF your position can be a disaster. The government could easily just announce that non-approved radio comms are prohibited, and then even keying up a mike or using the Morse key could get you rounded up and incarcerated. Situations like that call for other types of communications. Hard wired sound powered phones, visible and invisible focused light systems, various audible sound systems, and various manual handheld signal systems can be used that are hard to almost impossible to detect, and even if the method is detected, often the message is indecipherable.
Blanket statements aside, yes Amateur radio should be part of most prepper's gear set and planning, but it is far from the only one, and cannot be counted on at times at all. So, several forms of alternative comms, both short range and long range, should be incorporated into any comms plan.
Just my opinion.
Originally Posted by ###### View Post
What I am looking for is a good radio set up to be able to do a few tasks. If anyone has any knowledge about radio systems and can give me a little advice with it that would be awesome.
Here's the skinny. It's going to be across three platforms building, vehicle and walking. I'm looking for them to be able to cross communicate with each other. The building set up I would like to have a 100 mile omni directional range. For the vehicles I would like to have a 50 mile omni directional range and for the walking I'd like to have about a 25-30 mile range. I'd like to have a wide range of frequencies so I can bounce between them if necessary. Price range is around $100 for the walking $250 for the vehicles and about $500 for the building if this is unrealistic I am okay with flexing the prices a bit.
Thank you for the time.
My response:
I hate to be a downer, but what you are asking is not doable at the budget stated, unless you depend on repeaters. And anything over 10 miles handheld will need to be manpack form, which is much heavier and more expensive, of course.
Anything even close to doing what you want will need to be either Business band, which is very expensive and complicated, or Amateur radio with everyone getting a General Class license. And the budget would need to be at least quadrupled overall even for the Amateur radio choices.
You will need to go with HF frequencies for base and mobile with very good antennas, and 6-meter handheld to get close to the ranges you want. Some examples. If you can get good used items, it should be quite a bit cheaper, but still not cheap.
Amateur Radio Band Plan charts are attached.
My thoughts on Non-radio Communications
Communications in the PAW are going to be critical to the success and safety of a community. There are several non-radio methods that can be used that do not rely on electricity or electronic devices, though the electronic and electrical methods, and radios are the most efficient, by far. Some of the non-radio methods are more secure than others, though by using fairly simple codes, if needed, all can be made secure from casual listeners/readers/watchers. Some are one way only, and others can be one-way or two-way, or available to a group.
Some non-radio/non-electronic communications methods:
Body signals: If two or more people are within sight of each other, close enough to make out reasonably well different body positions at least, with the ability to see hand motions much better, pre-arranged information can be conveyed without sound. There are several ‘standard’ sets of hand signals for just about every type of situation. Making up some for a group will work, without giving anything away to anyone familiar with the standard ones. If the hands can be seen well enough, larger body motions can be used.
Messengers: travelling by several methods from foot to human powered conveyances to motorized transport on land, water, or air.
Couriers: Similar to messengers, except will be carrying documents or other items rather than just simple word-of-mouth or simple written messages.
Animal couriers: These can be problematical. Carrier pigeons, if well trained for the purpose can work very well, though are not absolute. If/when it becomes known that they are being used, every bird seen in the sky will be destroyed if possible. And they can be lost due to various natural dangers, including raptors and other predators, and weather factors. Well trained dogs can be just about as effective, for shorter distances, but they are also at high risk. Small pets, including a few rodent types, can be used to send messages through enclosed passages, such as pipes, HVAC conduits, and such, when using the passages as voice tubes is not viable. Any messages sent by animal courier should be encoded and multiple forms of getting the message to the receiving party should also be used, if at all possible.
Signal flags: Hand held, either standard or custom designs. Including marine signal flags. And even a simple flag, on a flag pole, can be raised and lowered in specific patterns, much like a semaphore works, to transmit information.
Semaphore: pole, vehicle, or building mounted with direct hand control, mechanical or electrical remote control.
Panel/area signals: Use of cloth or panels made from other materials can be used, much like the standard set of panels packed in military survival kits and can be effective. If larger versions are used, they can be seen from further away. And not just from airplanes. If they are laid out on sloped ground or held up by supports, they can be seen from others that are high enough. Custom panels can be made, varied by color and/or shape, to provide specific information.
Signal mirror: simple hand held mirror, as well as actual signal mirrors that can be aimed a bit better.
Heliograph: A signal mirror in a device that can be aimed, with a shutter to be able to do controlled flashes of light. Works only when at least some sun is available, or can use an artificial source of light to produce a form of a blinker light, such as candles, battery flashlights, chemical lights, even lasers. Laser versions can be aimed very precisely, and will not be visible very far off the center line, unless debris is in the air, or fog is between the two points. If equipped with an IR laser and IR goggles, they can be even more clandestine.
Blinker light: Can be a battery operated portable light with trigger or other shutter control used for signaling. Can also use non-electrical sources of light. As with heliographs, other sources of light can be used. Candles, battery flashlights, chemical lights, even lasers.
Alpenhorns/bicycle horns/trumpets/didgeridoos: Can be air powered, breath powered, or electrically powered. Musical instruments, toy music makers, commercial devices.
Bullroarer/rhombus/turndun: From the ancient versions to the modern Australian version, in various tonal designs, these can be used for fairly long-distance comms.
Drums: The classic ‘primitive comms’. Can actually be very sophisticated. From toy tom-toms to massive deep base drums that can signal over vast distances.
Yodeling: Another ancient form of long-distance human produced sound communication. Can be simple to complex, depending on the skills of the communicators using the method.
Whistles: Like horns and trumpets, can be powered by various means, and can be cheap toys to sophisticated commercial versions.
Bells: From simple toy triangle or bike bell, to jingle bells to cow bells to dinner bell triangles to drum set cymbals.
Megaphone: Primarily the unpowered, simple cone shaped type sometimes still used by cheerleaders, can be used to project ones voice, and can often be used in conjunction with some of the other devices that use sound to both direct the sound further, and if steps are taken to shield the device in other directions, limit the area in which the sounds will be heard.
Tin can & string phone: Do not discount this children’s fun device. It can be a viable communications device in some instances.
Voice tube: Can be highly effective for point to point comms. And can often be very unobtrusive or camouflaged as simple piping. Using a reverse megaphone on the ends will increase the volume, as well as help shield the talker’s voice. And other sound devices can be used if talking is not the best option. Depending on the complexity of the tube configuration, conduit snakes can be used in the tubes to push/pull small message containers through.
Vacuum tube systems: Not radio tubes. If one can salvage or buy ahead of time, one of the vacuum tube systems such as banks use at some of the drive throughs that are not electronic, a system can be rigged to use them, if the power for the vacuum pump is available. Not all that viable of a system. However, it might be possible to use the system, sans the vacuum part, by stringing cord or cable through the tubing and pull the containers back and forth. Or, since air pressure is easier than vacuum, the system might be rigged to use air pressure from each end to send the containers back and forth.
Dumb waiters: These do not have to be vertical. Nor an actual dumb waiter. The principle, however, of a small box being hoisted/lowered or pulled back and forth horizontally, is valid in some situations, especially if larger items must be moved between areas where making space for humans to travel is not viable.
Flame devices: Flares, smoke signals, flaming arrows, signal fires, and such can be used. Until you run out of them, or the supplies to make them. Plus, the launched fire types can be a severe hazard in dry areas that can burn. However, they can be very effective, and if extensive supplies are laid in, or they are naturally renewable locally, they can actually be useful over much longer periods of time. And unlike what is usually seen in old western movies, there are several more ways to use signal fires/smoke signals than just puffs of smoke from a smoky fire covered and uncovered by a wet blanket. Arrangements of multiple small smoky fires, colors of smoke created by adding natural chemicals to the fire, and just the location of single fires can all furnish specific information to those that know what each means.
Pyrotechnics: Besides the standard perimeter alarm systems using various ammunition types or other pyrotechnic devices, there are quite a few other ways to use pyrotechnics. Of course, three shots fired at very short intervals is one that most know. In addition, however, and much less expensive, is the use of things like various fireworks items. There is a huge variety of them available, and each one can have a specific meaning. And when it comes to the basic firecracker, how they are set off can provide various pieces of information. Individual, two, three or various other combinations set off in specific timed intervals can be very useful. Of course, these are consumables, and unless one can make their own, will eventually run out, or go bad if not stored correctly.
Sound cannon: Various types of sound cannons and other area bird denial devices can be used, though some consume quite a bit of whatever product they use to create the sound. I do not really consider these too useful, except for very serious situations when signaling long distance is needed.
Field signals: There are several ‘standard’ sets of signal types used in field work such as hiking, camping, patrolling, surveying, and such. Rock cairns; tree blazes; trail markers such as thumb tacks/push pins, colored yarn, warning tape, etc.; bent/broken branches; and several other methods can be used to provide much more information than what is usually provided by these methods. Simply set up your own definitions for each of the various standard versions.
Drops: Though not an immediate system, fairly detailed, complex, or large quantity/large size types of information can be done with drops. The sender leaves the item(s) in a secure location that the recipient knows is a drop, and the recipient is either sent word by some other means, or checks the spot on some type of schedule (not one that can be recognized as a pattern), and picks up the item(s). Drops can be used in just about any area, from downtown in the largest mega-cities, to remote wilderness areas. They simply must be known by all that need to use them, chosen in a manner that makes them secure for those using them, and not likely to be discovered by others.
Broad signals: I consider these to be signals that can be seen and interpreted by those in the know, that are out in the open, but will not mean anything to anyone that is not in the know. Billboards can be a version. Not the actual display on the billboard, but some type of minor modification or addition, that can be looked for and discerned, but will not be noticed by anyone else, or if it is noticed, not given any sort of attention. Placement of specific objects in specific places. A towel draped over a balcony. A pulled shade on a specific window. Or a specific item in a specific window. The options are endless. Just use some imagination.
Water based signals: Many of the signaling systems listed here can be used on the water. However, there are several more specific to water. One is dye. Dumping various colors of dye in the water can mean specific things. Floating objects the same. In moving water, messages can be sent downstream in floating containers, or in containers suspended under a floating object. These require someone to be monitoring the water so they can retrieve the object, or there must be some type of automatic retrieval system.
Flying signals: Kites (different colors/styles/shapes) can be used to provide different types of information. Since they will be seen by many others, they are rather limited to use when kites are likely to be in the air normally. Helium balloons, of various colors and shapes, either freed or on a tether, can be used similarly, as long as helium is available, or a source of hydrogen is available, such as by electrolysis.
Sound powered phones: The most basic of these use only the power of the voices to convert the vibrations to electrical signals and send them down the connecting wire. Others use some sort of battery to enhance the sound, and provide a signal to indicate a call is being made. Even systems in good shape, from before WW II can be very effective. Modern versions using microelectronics can be quite sophisticated, though more susceptible to EMP if not protected, and use standard telephones, even old rotary versions in some cases.
Simple powered local site telephone system: Standard telephones can be connected to a fairly simple local network, using some electronic devices available on-line. From very simple to actually pretty sophisticated, these systems can work quite well, though they are susceptible to EMP if not protected.
Telegraph system: Another wired system, but very simple. Does need a bit of power, more for longer distances. Batteries, with solar, generator, or crank re-charging, or as used originally, earth battery system, can be used for the longer distances.
Just my opinion.
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