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Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth

Offline David-Audrey

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2017, 10:25:52 AM »
TWP

The comment asking for comments about the video were not directed at you...I really do want to know what people think.

That said, your comments were helpful.  While I've done quite a bit of reading, I'm doing more.

Thanks

David
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Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 01:49:20 PM »
I was finally able to download the video. I will watch it tonight and try to comment tomorrow.

Just my opinion.
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Jerry D Young

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and always remember TANSTAAFL

(TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert A. Heinlein)

Offline 230gr

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 02:06:35 PM »
Quote
Earth's rapidly diminishing ability to handle the Sun's eruptions and also about the Sun's power……..I really do want to know what people think.

The sun because of its nearly incomprehensive massiveness and extremely violent nature will always be a deadly danger to our little rock earth.  Solar flares, CME blasts, Sun core magnetic fluctuations, grand solar minimum (“mini ice ages”), even near extinction level UV sears have all happened in the past so the can, and probably will, happen again.  Earth's rapidly diminishing magnetosphere’s ability to protect us ageist the Sun's Solar flares eruptions and CME blasts are certainly one, IMO. 
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Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 03:52:42 PM »
A positive note.

I do believe, that when the magnetic pole change finishes, and the poles snap back into place in line with the rotational poles, that the magnetosphere will also come back in strength to what it was historically.

Just my opinion.
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Jerry D Young

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and always remember TANSTAAFL

(TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert A. Heinlein)

Offline TWP

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 06:34:35 PM »
Since there is some interest among us about the geomagnetic field changes, I did some digging and found this chart.

https://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Magnetosphere/geomagnetic_field_strength_brunhes.html

I draw your attention to the variation in field strength over very long time periods.  Not only does the field strength decease, as it is doing now, it also becomes stronger.  Right now, the field is at about the median level AND above a hypothetic "critical" level at which past reversals have been measured.

The point is that even though we are currently experiencing a decrease in field strength, this DOES NOT always lead to a reversal of the field direction ( a magnetic reversal ).  What has gone down, has also come up again.

However, it remains true that a lower field strength allows more radiation to reach the surface, where we live...

How long might these low field / higher radiation periods last?  Look at the chart time line (left side of the graph).

Because of the method used to measure the field over historic (archaeological) time frames, we don't have exact measurements for small time periods.  The measurements are taken from volcanic rock which solidified after release.  These are kind of randomly scattered across time.  You can research this yourself.

So what can we expect?  Slow changes, in either direction, mean long periods of either higher or lower radiation.  NOT a sudden change.  The time scale looks like hundreds to thousands of years for each cycle, not sudden changes.

Do I see a real danger here?  I'll have to say "possibly" but not absolutely.  If I were publishing a news story intended to scare people and buy more issues, I would emphasize the "possibility" of disaster and down-play the other side of coin...  "If it bleeds, it leads"...  ::)

So should I be worried?  My Opinion is NO, but I'd also look into how to avoid increased exposure to radiation.  Not necessarily buying lead underwear, but designing for added shielding in homes (underground?) and low cost radiation monitors.  Planning my time to spend more of it under better shielding.  Reduce the time you are outside and essentially UN-shielded.

Let me also point out that CMEs are a factor which DOES lead to (among other affects) rapid onset, short duration, high radiation levels as measured on the surface of the planet.  If these happen during a time of low geomagnetic field strength, then we get more radiation hitting the surface.

Am I ready to give up? no...  We presently have a pretty good early warning system for CMEs AND we know when to get under cover.   Some shielding is better than others, for instance a standard wood frame house is fairly poor, but the basement of a cement and steel building is better...  Look at "fallout" shelters as an example.

So, make some good prepper plans on where to shelter during a CME.  We are talking about periods of hours, not days or weeks.

"Don't Worry, Be Happy"... ;D You are a prepper, after all.  Lead foil hats probably won't help...
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Offline TWP

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 08:44:13 AM »
Again with reference to protection from temporary high radiation levels:

http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/how-to-design-a-nuclear-fallout-shelter/

I found this to be a good, but basic, outline of what you need for shielding.

For more specific details, scroll to the end of the article and follow the reference links.

The comments on this article, while somewhat anecdotal, do contain additional advice and suggestions.

I am reproducing and editing the reference links.  Changed to use Infogalactic rather than wikipedia for OPSEC reasons.  I've also updated broken or missing links.
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Offline 230gr

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2017, 10:53:31 AM »
Quote
Slow changes, in either direction, mean long periods of either higher or lower radiation.  NOT a sudden change.

The final reversal period, can come on fast and also flip back and forth which would be a period of maximum vulnerability to Solar flares and CME blasts. As far as I know, this does not affect the odds of being hit by Solar flares and CME blasts only of them causing more damage should they occur.
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Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2017, 02:18:47 PM »
I watched the video David linked.

Though there was not anything new to me, the video explained things reasonably well, with only a bit of alarmist content.

It did not go into depth (so to speak) on how and why the magnetosphere exists and what the influences are that create major and minor changes in the strength and placement. Nor the role that the atmosphere, and a few other things play in how much radiation, of various types, reach the earth.

Still a good tool, if used with others, to help get the message across of the potential radiation dangers we face from space.

I am not sure how many might have read the articles I attached, but they do have some preps and procedures that can be used to reduce the danger and the damage.

Just my opinion.

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Jerry D Young

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and always remember TANSTAAFL

(TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert A. Heinlein)

Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2017, 02:19:56 PM »
More good reference tools, TWP. Thank you.

Just my opinion.
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Jerry D Young

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best, and always remember TANSTAAFL

(TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch - Robert A. Heinlein)

Offline David-Audrey

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  • ...Because change is inevitable!
Re: Understanding the Sun's impact on a changing Earth
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 09:45:16 AM »
Thanks to all of you for the comments.

In particular, Jerry, I appreciate your comment about the video not being alarmist.  That is part of the reason I decided to make the original post.  My goal was not to scare.  My hope was that people be aware of the Sun's power and Earth's changing conditions and, take whatever steps they deem appropriate for their personal situation.

One web sight I view daily to monitor the sun is www.spaceweathernews.com.  On one of the views of the Sun, they have superimposed a scale model of the Earth over the sun.  Sometimes, I have trouble finding it.  The Sun is HUGE compared to our tiny rock.  The Sun's power is unimaginably powerful. 

It is the source of most things good on Earth...it makes life possible.  But...

It has the potential to cause trouble for us...Just wanted people to be aware.

Thanks again for all of the views and comments.

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