Timepieces For The Prepper

[Ken K7KBJ]

Last night's session of the Northern Nevada Preppers Group Net has been posted.
We talked about the importance of Timepieces For The Prepper.
Here's your link:   http://www.nnpg.net/020117_radio.shtml

Here's the chat room transcript:

NNPG - The Northern Nevada Preppers Group Chat

7:59:11 PM
Ken K7KBJ joined the channel
7:58:16 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Hi
7:58:17 PM
JDY joined the channel
7:58:25 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Hi JDY !
Tonight's topic is Timepieces For The Prepper
7:59:01 PM
KG7MZO
Good evening JDY
7:59:01 PM
TWP joined the channel
7:59:35 PM
TWP
Hmmm. Nobody gets to be admin?
7:59:48 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Tonight's topic is Timepieces For The Prepper
8:00:54 PM
TWP
The user interface does not show who is in the admin position. I logged out and rebooted just in case.
8:04:08 PM
JDY left the channel (timeout)
n7sax joined the channel
8:06:53 PM
n7sax
Good evening
8:07:02 PM
TWP
Hi SAX
8:07:10 PM
n7sax
This is the topic I suggested awhile back
I have perspective to offer
8:08:07 PM
JDY joined the channel
8:08:17 PM
TWP
Hi Jerry
8:08:32 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Hi everyone !
8:09:53 PM
TWP
I'll have a document posted to the NNPG forum with various plans for making clocks.
8:10:09 PM
n7sax
For the longest time I have had Seiko electric watches, fantastically reliable and accurate but vulnerable to an EMP and batteries wear out.
8:10:13 PM
JDY left the channel (timeout)
8:10:14 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Good TWP, that would be very interesting.
8:10:24 PM
TWP
I'll post it after tonights session
8:10:26 PM
n7sax
I agree with the Gentleman speaking now.
8:10:55 PM
Ken K7KBJ
That is David, K7DWW
8:10:56 PM
n7sax
Wind watches and Automatics are quite a bit less reliable
It seems to me that even a windup watch and automatic with their FINE springs might be lit-up by an EMP.
I would really like to get a physicist's opinion on whether an EMP could damage the springs in mechanical watches that MUST resemble electric/electronic coils
8:14:10 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Interesting point, SAX.
8:14:23 PM
n7sax
I typed less reliable I Meant To Say less accurate...
8:15:27 PM
TWP
It (EMP damage) is a function of the length of the metal element (antenna). The metal case of the watch will serve as a partial shielding from EMP, but not total...
8:16:43 PM
Ken K7KBJ
I wonder if having the metal case of the watch touching the arm would help ground it to minimize any damage which might occur inside of it.
8:16:45 PM
n7sax
II recently researched and bought a bought magnetically shielded wrist watch in (better?) preparation for an emp and I am also near magnets in my work.
If you web search for Magnetically shielded watches you will find about a dozen out there... Not very many and as I said quite expensive.
8:19:07 PM
TWP
The coiled springs, being small, may not receive enough impulse to be damaged (MAY). A factor is whether a current path is available. If the pulse induced voltage does not have path to move electrons, then little damage is to be expected.
8:20:22 PM
n7sax
The watch that is most impervious to magnetics which I think relates to sensitivity to an EMP is the Omega SeaMaster Aqua Terra 15,000 Gauss
it is made entirely of Non-Ferrous metallic parts
8:20:58 PM
TWP
Grounding is not a factor and in fact ungrounded is best. The resistance of skin is fairly high, which will reduce any current.
8:21:34 PM
n7sax
Rolex makes the "Mil-Gauss" 1000 Gauss
I bought the Seiko
He needs to explain Hack
Jerry does
8:22:22 PM
Ken K7KBJ
I have a TAG that works really well. It does have a battery so, who knows...
8:22:55 PM
n7sax
Ask Jerry to explainn Hack.... it means that you can stop the second hand
for synchronization
without the Hack, you can move the big and little hand around but the second hand continues to move
8:26:38 PM
TWP
Another factor is why you need to measure time. From very rough (day or night) to down to the second precision.
8:26:44 PM
n7sax
The Seiko with mag resistance (1,000 Gauss) model is SBGR077
ask jerry what he thinks an EMP might do to a mainspring???
8:31:04 PM
KG7MZO
KG7NSV...hahahahaha!!! Great cigar
8:32:07 PM
TWP
How many cigars can you smoke in a row?
Re battery life. I use a Casio dive watch and the battery has lasted well over a decade.
8:34:53 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Really? Never would have thought a battery could last that long.
Is it charged by a self winding mech inside?
8:35:35 PM
TWP
Really low current draw, not self winding, digital electronic
8:36:59 PM
n7sax
Jerry's explanation of the hack is not all inclusive a mechanical watch with Hack stops the second hand, if you want it zeroed, you have to "pull" the crown to stop at the desired point on the dail presumably at the 12
charge the luminous hands with a flash light at the beginning of a night move
8:41:38 PM
TWP
The Tritium will not recharge from external light. You'd need to buy one with the appropriate phosphor, not tritium (radio isotope which drives a light emitting phosphorescent chemial.
8:45:33 PM
n7sax
The Seiko 5 series of automatics are not magnetically shielded but they are very inexpensive - like $75.00
8:48:31 PM
KG7MZO left the channel (91a3bc6c0637ffec5b77e9e21f4339af0636358a)
8:48:48 PM
n7sax
Thanks Ken and everyone else, good night.
Ken are you coming to the sat morn meeting
?
8:49:30 PM
Ken K7KBJ
Was going to but I'll be out of town again, dammit !!!
8:49:34 PM
TWP
Night all
Thanks Ken
8:49:42 PM
Ken K7KBJ
gnite!

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[TWP]

Clock Information

Water Clocks  (Advantage, they work 24 hours a day, can be self resetting)

Video: How to Make a Water Clock (Clepsydra) 11.01 Min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jygGfzrjgcI

Sundials (Disadvantage, they don't work at night or when the sun is obscured, are not precise)

More than you asked for:

http://www.sundials.org/

Sundial Projects:

http://www.sundials.co.uk/projects.htm

http://www.phy6.org/stargaze/Sundial.htm

You can buy premade sundials of various sizes and artistic quality...

Self winding wristwatches

These are recommended, both for precision time keeping and 24 hour operation WITHOUT the need for either manual winding or the use of an electric cell (battery) to keep them running.

Again, More than you want to know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_watchhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_watch

These watches are readily available now in most watch sales counters.

Electronic Watches (Disadvantage, you need a cell (battery) to keep it running)

These are the default option for most watches now available and are both precise and accurate.

No links for this type of watch since they is so common.

No, you probably won't be able to make one yourself.

If you are using self winding watches and it stops because you forgot to wear it, you will need a time source to reset it.

That primary clock might be an electric clock, running off rechargeable cells with a solar charger.

[Jerry D Young]

I am down for a while, taking very strong antibiotics, and in a great deal of additional pain. So I will only be able to get on the internet a few minutes at a time to conserve my data time on my phone. And using the phone prevents me from making any posts more than a few words long. This one has worn me out. Will post the time info when I can.  Sorry.


Jerry

[TWP]

Jerry, take care of yourself first.  Contact us if you need assistance.
TWP

PS: I have plenty of tinfoil if you think it would help

[Ken K7KBJ]

Hope you are feeling better soon, Jerry. Let us know if you need anything.

[Jerry D Young]

I have recovered enough to do some online stuff. I will not say this is my best work, but here it is anyway.

My thoughts on timekeeping in the PAW

While some have stated in various venues where I spend time, that keeping track post disaster, especially in the PAW will not be all that critical of a skill.

I tend to disagree. I feel the ability to keep fairly accurate time, including short time frames, normal daily time frames, and long time frames where calendars become a major component of a person’s time tracking and time usage plan.

Highly accurate timekeeping will not probably be required by most preppers. Only those that now need to have it available in a job or for a skill and will continue to be able to do that job in the PAW, will need to make sure that type of high precision time piece is available. I will leave that to those that know what they need.

For myself, I do not anticipate the need for more than fractional seconds’ accuracy, and that in very remote chance situations. So most of the rest of this article is in reference to daily activity time keeping, and long term time keeping.

I believe preppers will still have need for time keeping down to the second. That will mostly be for coordination for events where people must perform a function, but will not be in direct contact with the others needing to do a function coordinated with theirs. Could be for planning an attack, synchronizing flipping switches or turning valves, various other actions. Whatever the use, the accuracy of one second is good, and the ability to ‘hack watches’ can be important.

Hacking is simply everyone stopping the movement of the second hand on their watch (or pausing the count on a digital watch), everyone setting their watch to the same exact time, and then restarting the watches. If they are at all accurate, the time will be acceptable for the activity, at least for a few hours.

There will be many tasks that simply being coordinated loosely, timewise, and not even having a timepiece around will not be a handicap. But it is pretty much a given that everyone that survives a major event will have more work to do than time in which to do it. That means people will have to be very careful with their distribution of work over given times in order to get everything that has to be done finished within the time allowed for that job.

Some people seem to have built in clocks, and are always aware of just what time it is, often without much of any exterior clues other people can detect. I used to be that way. But as I aged and my health deteriorated, I lost some of the ability, unfortunately. In the absence of any external information I was not that accurate. But if the sun was apparent in any way, or the moon, or the stars, I could get within 15 minutes of the local time. Often much closer.

That is more or less beside the point, though. The need to have clocks around, and watches available, is strong. A cook needs to time various functions in the kitchen. Many can tell visually or tactically for some things if they are highly experienced and they are using the same products they always have. But even experienced cooks may need a kitchen time if ingredient substitutions have been made, they have a different stove or oven, if it is much hotter or colder in the kitchen than usual, if they are now at a different altitude.

Children need stability in their lives, especially in and after a disaster. By having their activities regulated fairly closely in time, it helps that stability. And let me tell you, if a two-year-old cannot be shown a timepiece that tells him/her that it really is bedtime, that child can take what seems like forever to convince of that fact.

As time will be so important in the aftermath of a major disaster, when people are scheduled to meet, they will need to be on time, so none of them lose any just waiting around. Now, just having timepieces will not ensure this alone, stressing the importance of promptness will need to be done. But without the timepieces, it will be almost impossible.

So, what does one do? What are some acceptable time keeping items that will work when there is little left of the infrastructure.

At home, and in various other fixed locations, wind up clocks will do fine, if kept wound and the time adjusted as needed from a more accurate timepiece. Some of the expensive 8-day wind up clocks, and the 31-day grandfather and mantle clocks can keep very good time, and if a routine is set up and followed, they can and will keep very accurate time for a long time.

Of course, electric clocks, both AC and DC, will work, if you have the power source. I do not count on it. Now, there is one electronic timepiece that might just work when (or where) there is no good electrical power source. That is what I usually just call a ‘potato watch’. There are many variations, using other vegetables and fruits, as well as some liquids, to generate enough power to keep a simple digital clock module operating. Just replace the potato as needed.

For carrying on a person, decent wind-up watches work well, as do the better automatic winding mechanical watches. If not kept wound appropriately, or if there is no arm activity often enough in the case of the automatics, they will wind down and have to be rewound and the time reset.

Which brings me to your ‘atomic clock’ baseline time marker. If you have one timepiece that is both very accurate and will run consistently in the environment, it can be used as the reference. But even it will need to be checked against the best available source of time accuracy. Basically the sun. Once or twice a year, the weather cooperating, if one has already set things up, as should be done, a person can get a very accurate time mark from the sun shining on the apparatus.

More or less basic checks can be made with a quality sundial, set up correctly, when the sun is out. There are other ways that do not require the sun, but they get complicated to build and expensive to buy accurate working models.

That covers daily time needs. You will need various calendars for various reasons, at least reasonably accurate. The sun can be you double check for calendars, just as it is for timepieces. Also, like sundials for time, there are devices using the sun to show the month and day, for much of the year. Other parts of the year may not be as clear. But there are other methods to know just when it is time to plant, to harvest, to fish, to celebrate, and all the other month and day relative events.

As long as someone marks every day at a consistent time, a manually kept calendar can be maintained, without the use of a 24-hour time indicator.

There are various perpetual calendars that can be used in lieu of new printed calendars every year. If you make them fancy they will look great beside the 31-day grandfather clock and the mechanical weather instrument panel in the parlor.

One of the main things is to get things ready beforehand. Set up what you can, if it is feasible. Otherwise have things set up so you can install what is needed, calibrated, and the timekeeping plan put into action.

Personally, I like the automatic watches. Many companies make quality ones. Some are available pretty much all the time. A couple of companies only produce them once in a while, and then stop production until demand rises again.

I have an Orvis brand automatic, which works well, but the hand and numeral illumination is not that great.

Hamilton makes a very good one. Stuhrling is another good manufacturer, as is Seiko. Timex has them some of the time, if you can find one. If you can afford it, Rolex has some excellent models.

Do not forget to have a few wind-up timers, for various functions, including use in the kitchen, and for various other processes that need timing.

If one understands and can do it, getting the time using celestial instruments and charts can be pretty effective. I just do not have the skill.


There are also some electronic watches that will work, at least for a time, that also have other very useful functions, such as a compass, thermometer, hygrometer, and so on. All of which I am aware use a battery. Some primary batteries, but others use a rechargeable that is kept charged by a solar cell on the watch. I have known of some of them lasting for over ten years. But eventually that battery will fail. Perhaps spare batteries can be kept that hold charge long enough to be used to replace the bad battery. I am not sure. So I go with non-electronic that require a battery in the circuit.

If you have time pieces, you will need them serviced at some point. I certainly cannot do it. But I do have the tools required for someone that can, to do it.

I was going to put in some links for some of the items and procedures mentioned above, but some of the ones I have are no longer active. Plus, there are so many different procedures concerning non-electronic time setting and keeping, I decided to put the burden on you’all to search the internet and/or library to find those techniques and then acquire what you need to do them, and then practice them.

I went through a stage of being somewhat consumed with ancient time keeping and did several of the different methods of solar timekeeping. They were fun, and not too difficult. I had a small ‘garden’ at home that had everything set up in what amounted to a ‘decorating feature’ with the time related items, sand/rock garden, a gazing ball, and a big chunk of log for a seat. Never did get the water fountain made.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

Just my opinion.

[TWP]

One item I don't see mentioned is a hour-glass or sand clock.

They are reasonably accurate, don't need electricity, run silently, can be used at any time of the day.

Disadvantages are:  Fragile, hard to make by hand (not impossible), require human intervention for use over long time frames.

These are primarily Interval Timers, not primary time keepers.