Discussion about Nukes

[Clay]

Jerry got me to read Alas, Babylon again through the book club and so now I'm back around to thinking about preps for nuclear exchanges. With relations between Russia being what they are, it certainly isn't out of the question. What do you all think about NBC Preps?

 I also wanted to share this article that is pretty well regarded.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828719/

[Jerry D Young]

CBNRE (Chemical, Biological, Nuclear, Radiation, Explosive) considerations are part of my preps and have been from the very beginning, starting in 1967. While the probability of GTW (Global Thermonuclear War) is slightly less than it once was (though I think that will go back up soon), the probability of lone wolf attacks with small nuclear weapons and radiation devices is up there now.

The primary additions to 'regular' preps for NRE part of CBNRE are radiation and blast sheltering, metering, and air filtration. The sheltering is relatively easy to achieve, and does not cost all that much, if a person has an appropriate location. Plus, there are existing adequate sheltering locations in this area that can be used if one learns where they are, and is willing to run a bit of risk to use them. The air filters can be home made fairly economically, or purchased, which can be expensive. Meters can be expensive, but there are some low cost options out there.

The CB part of the preps, requiring additional preps is a subject for another thread.

Just my opinion.

[Clay]

Since there is quite a few of you in the blast zone so to speak, has there been any group effort to map out where shelters are?  I'm assuming you speak of shelters that are left overs from the old civil defense days. Do any casinos have basements? That might be an option.

We are set here, our shelter is safe and sound. All the gear looks good, except a few of the dosimeters have lost their needles. I'm not sure what happened there. Does anyone have a good source for dosimeters these days?

[TWP]

re basements in local casinos.  I know that the large (high-rise) casinos have at least two basement floors, but I'm also leery of being trapped under all the upper floors.  Downtown Reno is not a high priority target, but...

I really don't know of any "bomb shelters" from the 50's-60's era.  There may be private shelters, but they are, rightly, kept private.

[Jerry D Young]

I am aware of at least one formerly marked CD shelter in the area. I am sure there are more. I would be willing to bet that any federal or state government building built before 1965 had shelter space marked, if it was at all suitable, and almost all buildings of that type were constructed in a manner that created shelter space, whether intended at the time of construction or not.

Just my opinion.

[Clay]

Thanks fellas. I'm in town enough there that it's good to know where to head if something does happen. More likely the target might be Fallon NAS, but who knows how accurate those things really are.

The other concern would be prevailing winds of course. Sacramento, San Francisco, Beale and Travis air force bases and a prevailing wind thanks to the Delta Breeze are not in our favor.

Here's my go to company for meters and such, www radmeters4u.com 

[TWP]

Jerry,
  Do you know of any source that could give us a listing of those possible shelters?

That would be good info to have in one's bug-out bag.

[Jerry D Young]

Here are the ones I have found so far:
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMDZGQ_Virginia_Street_Gymnasium_UNR_Reno_Nevada
http://www.city-data.com/forum/reno-sparks-area/856475-reno-civil-defense-shelters.html
http://www.rgj.com/story/life/2015/05/12/fallout-shelter-washoe-library-phillip-earl-aaron-kenneston-marc-tiar-cold-war/27201175/
http://www.forgottennevada.org/sites/fallout.html

Just my opinion.

[TWP]

Thanks Jerry,
  I'll work through these and prepare a list.

update:  This link:

http://www.rgj.com/story/life/2015/05/12/fallout-shelter-washoe-library-phillip-earl-aaron-kenneston-marc-tiar-cold-war/27201175/

contains pictures of the bare minimum cement tunnel located under the main Reno public library, where I am writing this.  It is NOT livable and I doubt it would serve for any real use.  Look at the pictures and see what I mean.
The story mentions the Olinghouse mining district (north east of Reno about 10-15 miles) as having a mine that was marked for use as a shelter.

This link:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/reno-sparks-area/856475-reno-civil-defense-shelters.html

Mentions that Reno High School still has a deep shelter (tunnel).
also suggested that there may have been up to 200 such shelters in the Reno area, supposedly marked with the old CD signage.  Some were in buildings that no longer exist (like the old Park Lane Mall).

Comments by readers (2013) say this:
"I would like to add that there is a confirmed shelter on the Northern NV Adult Mental Health Services campus.  This site was formally called The Nevada Insane Asylum, and other names.  The campus is located on Galetti Way."

And finally, this link:

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMDZGQ_Virginia_Street_Gymnasium_UNR_Reno_Nevada

says:  "This fallout shelter is located inside the Virginia Street Gymnasium on the Unversity of Nevada Reno Campus in Reno, Nevada." ... "This Civil Defense Fallout Shelter is located inside the newly remodeled Virigia Street Gymnasium. It has a capacity of 740."  Spelling mistakes are from the original posting.

I did a little web searching and found this article by Brian Burghart, date unknown be at least 15 years ago because the author talks about the Y2K scare as if it was yet to happen.

http://www.pyramid.net/burghart/Fallout.htm

...But the shelters maintained by federal and local governments have become footnotes in history books, according to Press Clewe of Washoe County Emergency Management. Fallout shelters were administered by the U.S. Federal Civil Defense Administration, which operated from 1951 in various forms until 1979, when its functions were pulled into the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Clewe, who is responsible for keeping track of the fallout shelters in Washoe County, says the shelters are beyond obsolete. For the most part, they’ve had stocked materials removed and are the last place you’d want to go in the event of an emergency.
“These facilities are in secure areas of buildings and generally not visible by the average public,” Clewe says. “We do not advertise them in any fashion as places people evacuate to in a flood or earthquake. We would never send anybody there.”
Clewe is a little concerned about discussing fallout shelters, especially in the context of emergency management.
“I don’t want the public to think that these facilities exist for their use now, or that they can go in and look at them or even be so presumptuous as to say, ‘Well, that’s where I’m going, so I’m going to store some stuff there,’” he says.

[Clay]

TWP,

Thanks for doing that research. I believe that what is said about the current state of that shelter is very true. The thing is that they do exist still, and knowing where they are just may save lives. It's really sad that we have no type of civil defense in this country any more.

[TWP]

The trouble is that many (most) of the CD shelters are really un-usable.  Either they were not designed correctly in the first place (the tunnel under the main library is an example) or the supplies they contain are expired (even the water has gone bad in many of them).

I'd prefer to rely on what I have built or investigated personally.

RE the mines mentioned in Jerry's URL's , most are on private property and I found many warnings about people with weapons who don't like trespassers.

It still might be worth a few expeditions to investigate the local area...

[Jerry D Young]

All I am concerned about is the structural safety of the once surveyed shelters. I would not expect them to have usable supplies. But if the building was adequate structurally as shelter space back then, it still should be, barring any major changes in the building.

I am not worried about getting a bunch of people into the shelters, like they were back in the 50s/60s. I want personal shelter space. Even those tunnels would be more than adequate for me and my game cart of supplies to last a couple of months.

Just my opinion.

[Clay]

I agree, if I see mushroom clouds it is time to think of me and my inner circle. What the rest of the city does is going to have to be up to them, because that is the world we live in. I would totally help someone who was in need and not hostile, but there is going to be a point where you either are ok or you are not and it's my job to keep my family on the ok side of that.

[TWP]

The problem, as explained in a couple of the articles, is that the old CD "tunnels" are not sealed.  They had fresh air which was perceptibly blowing through them.  That would be a problem if the intent is to avoid "fallout" contamination.

The door, shown in one picture, is not something that could be made secure.  It looked like an open metal grating, without a safety seal around the edges.

I do think that could be solved, given some time and the material needed to seal the tunnels.  I don't know if they have any kind of air filtering and certainly they don't have any air purification systems.  You would need to supply that yourself...

All I am concerned about is the structural safety of the once surveyed shelters. I would not expect them to have usable supplies. But if the building was adequate structurally as shelter space back then, it still should be, barring any major changes in the building.

I am not worried about getting a bunch of people into the shelters, like they were back in the 50s/60s. I want personal shelter space. Even those tunnels would be more than adequate for me and my game cart of supplies to last a couple of months.

Just my opinion.

[Clay]

Did you all see that North and South Korea are going at it?

And Syria (Iran) is lobbing stuff at Isreal too now?