Drones

[willc453]

Wondered if anyone has one and if so, what type, cost, learning curve and how often/why you use it.

[beorn]

I have a couple mainly just use them for pics and vid of property and activities like rockclimbing but have issues with keeping them flying I have been an aeromodeler for years and the old radio controlled fixed wing make a whole lot more sense to me and i can keep them running. Im hoping to build a fixed wing drone soon. btw I think my issues are from metalic iron rich dust in the motors and bearings it buggers them up very quickly when taking off and landing in a dusty environment.

[Jerry D Young]

I have a tiny one, with no features other than it can fly. Well, it can fly if someone other than me has the controls. My brother (it was a Christmas present from him) had it going around the room in about ten minutes. I have spend hours and still dare not get it more than three inches above the floor. And I have to make sure there are not any doors open, because once it is three inches above the floor, I have no idea where it will go when I touch any control.


I do think that they are a tremendous force multiplier for many of the operations in which a prepper will or might have to engage, as well as being great at helping with several mundane tasks that preppers do.


If I can ever afford one with the following features, with the first feature hopefully making it possible for even me to fly it. The features:
1) Programable autonomous flight
2) Loss-of-control-signal automatic RTB (return to base)
3) Bingo fuel automatic RTB (Bingo Fuel [in this case battery power] is a generally accepted term meaning minimum fuel to make a safe landing at the nearest landing facility capable of taking the aircraft)
4) Good multi-spectrum camera and decent transmitter

If possible, I would also want:
5) Programable parameter station keeping on operator
6) Locator tracking with station keeping
7) Fixed three axis 360° observation camera system
Marking laser
9) Directional microphones
10) High intensity strobe light system
11) High intensity disruptive sound system
12) A few other things I will not list which would take a large drone.

Now, I have some design ideas for LTA (Lighter Than Air) drones that could maintain altitude without much power, but would still need maneuvering drives.

Just my opinion.
One of these days, perhaps.

Just my opinion.

[willc453]

In checking out Youtube videos, looking at Mavic and Phantom drones. Cost is one thing I'm looking at, the other is flight time, spare batteries and what do I need to be able to view what my drone is seeing. I have a net 10 phone, so that's out. Looking at a ipad or something like it. Also from what understand, you need to download operating instructions from the net. As for prices, going between Craigs list and Ebay. There's also a place in town (via Craigslist) where you can rent drones by the month, something else for me to consider. NO idea how that works though. 

[Jerry D Young]

I forgot to mention:


There are some very tight restrictions on the use of drones in many areas. From anti invasion-of-privacy laws, criminal use laws, flight above a certain altitude, and total restriction of use near airports. There are probably more.


And be well aware of the hatred that many people have for the perceived (or real) use of drones by government agencies. People are already looking for, and trying out ways to destroy them in flight. And it probably will not matter whose drone it is they see, if they can even identify it somehow. There will be those that will attempt, and probably succeed at taking down civilian drones. I would dearly hate to lose a $2,000 drone to an angry guy with a shotgun that is a very good wing bird hunter.


Just my opinion.
 

[willc453]

Valid points, but plan on using mine in my backyard/air space up to 50'....and that's AFTER I learn to fly it inside my place. Rest of time it'll be out in the bush where I let my dog run amuck or where I fish like the cooling ponds, Truckee river, etc.

[WolfBrother]

I have a couple mainly just use them for pics and vid of property and activities like rockclimbing but have issues with keeping them flying I have been an aeromodeler for years and the old radio controlled fixed wing make a whole lot more sense to me and i can keep them running. Im hoping to build a fixed wing drone soon. btw I think my issues are from metalic iron rich dust in the motors and bearings it buggers them up very quickly when taking off and landing in a dusty environment.

In the Flea Taxi story "The Castaways" an electrical powered RC mfixed wing glider (actually several) have IR and color spectrum cameras with image transmission via radio to base to provide day and night patrols of the mine's property and property adjoining.
The idea of a RC fixed wing drone being available strikes me as being a very good tool for patrolling by air and monitor.  The first 4 items Jerry listed in his post would make the VERY GOOD tools:
1) Programable autonomous flight
2) Loss-of-control-signal automatic RTB (return to base)
3) Bingo fuel automatic RTB (Bingo Fuel [in this case battery power] is a generally accepted term meaning minimum fuel to make a safe landing at the nearest landing facility capable of taking the aircraft)
4) Good multi-spectrum camera and decent transmitter

What I don't know is whether a liquid fuel/engine powered one is quiet enough or whether an battery/motor powered one has enough charge time to make it useful.
I like the idea of a "silenced" (well muffled if available) fuel/engine powered one.

Beorn, what say you on the two platforms?
The RTB would be an important item.  I remember when RC was just getting started, I heard then saw an engine powered RC fairly high up flying due west over my house.  Two days later I heard that one of the local RC guys lost an aircraft when it didn't respond to a turn signal.  (Small home town, 15 minutes before I'd do something to get into trouble folks would be telling my parents about it.) I went to the man, told him what I saw, when, and what direction.  He met me at home, we went over the when, where, what and he went looking.  3 days later, he dropped by and gave me a $20 reward for the info.
WITH A BUILT IN RTB - I would not have gotten $20 when a King sized bottle of Coke was a dime and most candy bars were a nickel.
Some other ideas I have require a 10 to 15 pound payload capability.

[willc453]

Missing RC aircraft...oh yeah, I remember one of those. Living as a kid in the early 60's while we were stationed at Homestead AFB, Florida. Brothers/I were fishing one of the ponds and we saw a BIG RC airplane (B-29) being flown by an adult. We stood there in shock and awe as the man fly it thru the air...when suddenly he lost his signal and off it went to where ever with him jumping in his truck to try and chase it down.

And I remember the prices of coke also back in the day. Brother/I would each buy one, but add a small packet of peanuts to it.

[beorn]

Fixed wing versus rotary blade.
fixed wing  need a landing strip of some sort and cant retain a stationary position very well but the have a much better range,speed and performance in blustery winds they  may also be harder to learn to fly IMO.They also probably have better load carrying capacity.

These new fangled rotary blade are almost flying right out of the box but i have made plenty of mistakes with them and have had several crashes when high winds just blew them away.they can monitor in a stationary positiom and vertical take of and landing so no landing strip needed.

As others have said lots of regulation involved in true drones such as restricted airspace and long range models require a pilots license.

These batteries and electronics now are amazing so I dont know what advantage a fueled engine would give?

[WolfBrother]

beorn - you wrote - much better range,speed and performance in blustery winds they  may also be harder to learn to fly IMO.They also probably have better load carrying capacity.
I'm thinking a two engine drone.  The big one either in the tail or nose.  The station keeping one mounted at the top of the Air Craft at the center of gravity point like what you see on some amphibians.  Use both to take off and gain altitude.  Either idle down to lowest idle or kill the large one when at altitude and use the station keeping one to fly the patrol track.

I don't know how fast you could change batteries but you can refuel an engine driven one fairly quickly to get it back in the air.
Pros and Cons - fuel can leak and catch fire.  Battery recharge time that takes longer the older the batteries become.Fuel probable better range, speed and probable better payload capacity.Electric - quiet probably significantly more than the best muffled engine ones.

[Jerry D Young]

For battery powered drones, I would modify any system that did not already have a quick change battery system. I would not even consider a model with a fixed battery that could not be removed, but had to be charged in place. Even if not designed for quick removal, if a battery can be removed at all for replacement, the drone can probably be modified so the battery can be change quickly.


With liquid fuel engine types, I would want either a quick fill system, similar in concept to race car fueling systems, or use a quick change fuel pod, rather than refilling an internal tank. Perhaps have an internal for RTB, and the pods for general use.


Just my opinion.

[ken_]

I think the term "drone" is over-used for marketing. If you have to control it, it isn't a drone, it's a radio controlled aircraft. Both RC aircraft and drones are useful (and a lot of fun), but a drone (at least IMO) is capable of autonomous flight. If you put a camera on either, they're good for recon, surveying, observation, etc.

[Jerry D Young]

Several models of the military drones have autonomous flight for some of their flight, and some of the flight is human guided.


Some missions are fully programmed autonomous flights with only human monitoring and a live operations kill switch and self-destruct switch. Many of these are surveillance missions where no direct action is to be taken. Others are direct strike mission with a well defined and identified target. Sometimes the target is being painted with a laser or other device by troops in the area.


Other missions are fully controlled by operators.


Many of the missions overseas, I understand but cannot say for sure, are launched and flown to a certain point autonomously, and then a human operator takes over to complete the mission. These are often missions where targeting must be very selective, when collateral damage could be a major factor, or when there is no definitive target, but an area in which a human operator can make judgment calls and take appropriate action.


Just my opinion.

[WolfBrother]

Jerry,Without giving away any secrets, I can say that parts of Cambodia and Laos look just like parts of S. Vietnam.

Jerry, under the same caveat, your last post has no inaccuracies.
---------------

There was a RC competition, a guy that worked for an Aerospace (IIRC Lockheed) company in Austin, built a scale B-17.  He used 4 weed eater engines to power it.  He had working bomb bay doors and a bomb load of the toy plastic bombs that had a metal tip and a capgun cap in it.  It flew over and dropped it's bombs and they all popped when they hit.  He took his division.


For grins he entered it in the endurance event.  He used all 4 to take off with a full load of fuel and once flying killed 2 of them.
Flying the prescribed circle path, he tied then exceeded the record.  3+ hours later, he landed with a new endurance record.


Right after the awards were passed out a guy approached the B-17 owner and asked a bunch of questions, how did you build it, why those engines, where do you work and such.  The owner said he had documented his steps and had plans and would be happy to share.  They traded phone numbers and parted ways.


That next Monday his boss got him, asked him what he'd done wrong as he was walking him to the door.  Turned him over to plant security folks and they took him to one of the classified areas of the plant.


The guy asking all the questions the day before met them and took him into what turned out to be the drone section of the plant. He turned to the assembled Engineers, pointed to the B-17 owner and said, IN THE PAST 18 MONTHS, YOU PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO REACH THE POINT THAT MAN HAS IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS BY HIMSELF AT AROUND 1% OF THE COST.


He then turned to the B-17 guy and offered him a job leading a drone building team at about 3 times what he was making.


I know a little theory and such but do not have the skills to make one.

[Jerry D Young]

It is amazing what people do, that others think is impossible.


On another forum that I frequent, I run into that attitude all the time. A poster asks a question about how to go about doing something a bit out of the ordinary. I believe I am pretty accurate in saying fully 85% to 95% of the replies are about how that is impossible to do; too expensive to do; statements that the person should move, try something completely different, call the person and idiot (and worse), give their experiences about how they did something that has very little, if anything, to do with the question, and many other things that do not, in any way, help the person in any way.


While often times the idea might not be the best idea for some reason, which I will point out in my reply, I still come up with at least a couple of ways to do whatever the question is about. So many people that have only limited experiences cannot even see any other options than the ones with which they are familiar; are so enamored of some 'style' or 'type' of survival strategy that they will not look beyond it; are so convinced that some specific event will happen and only plan for that one thing and denigrate anyone trying to plan for something else because only the one thing they believe with happen is the only thing to prepare for and all other preps are meaningless; some simply are negative people and cannot simply not post when they have nothing to add; and there are those that quote 'experts' and other famous, infamous, and totally unknow people about the subject that more often than not were talking about something else entirely when they said what is being quoted.


Anyway, there are many ways to accomplish things, and many people can accomplish many things that others marvel at, because the idea, even if simple, is completely beyond their ability to comprehend it.


Yeah. I can definitely see an R/C guy (or gal) coming up with something that 'experts' never even thought about because it was not in the engineering books.


And I know just how much places can look alike from 'other people that were never there', as I am sure you know what I mean.


Just my opinion.